Citation
  • Farmerie, Todd A., "Medieval Genealogy Newsgroup: Champernoun still!" (GEN-MEDIEVAL Mailing List, Feb, 1999).
Data
  • Category: Research
Detail
  • Author: Farmerie, Todd A.
  • Publisher: GEN-MEDIEVAL Mailing List, Feb, 1999
  • Other Items: Page 1
Page: 2
  • Champernowne Still!, by Todd A. Farmerie, February 15, 1999
  • Text: From: "Todd A. Farmerie" Subject: Re: Champernowne still!
    Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:08:18 -0500

    ED MANN wrote:
    >> 1 Jordan de Cambernon d: Aft. 1171 ref #: (AR124A-27)
    > +Mabira de Caen d: Aft. 1189 ref #: AR124A-27
    > 2 Henry de Chambernon d: Abt. 1203 ref #: AR124A-28
    > +Isabel d: Aft. 1217 ref #: (AR124A-28)
    > 3 Henry de Chambernon d: Abt. 1210 ref #: AR124A-29
    > +Rohese de Tracy d: Aft. 1236 ref #: (AR124A-29)

    This #2 Henry is thanks to Benson. He had an Isabel de Chambernon that he could not place, and had what he considered to be a long lived Henry (m. Rohese) where there were two Jordans in the collateral line, so he decided that there were two Henrys, the older married to Isabel. In fact, there is no evidence that there were two Henrys, that Isabel was married to Henry (or any Champ. - she could have been a sister) and the two Jordans in the other line were likewise erroneously split. On top of this, Mabira is a generation further removed from Henry I, disturbing Benson's chronology, and shortenning the span between Jordan and Oliver, son of Henry and Rohese. I think we must reject Benson's additional Henry, and return to the one of Vivian and earlier authors.

    > 4 Oliver de Chambernon d: Bef. 1232 ref #: AR124A-30
    > +Wymarca d: Aft. 1237 ref #: (AR124A-30)
    > 5 Sir Henry de Chambernon b: Abt. 1225 d: Aft. 1280 ref #: AR124A-31
    > +Dionisia English ref #: (AR124A-31)
    > 6 Richard de Chambernon ref #: AAP:226
    > +Joan Okeston ref #: AAP:226
    > 7 Sir Richard Champernowne ref #: AAP:226
    > 8 Sir Richard Champernowne ref #: AAP:226
    > +Joan de Valletort ref #: AAP:226

    There is no room in the chronology for #7 Richard. #8 Richard m. Valletort was son of #6 Richard m. (Okeston/Cornwall).

    > 9 Sir Thomas Champernowne ref #: AAP:226
    > +Eleanor de Rohart ref #: AAP:226
    > 10 Sir Richard Champernowne ref #: AAP:226
    > +Katherine Daubeny ref #: AAP:226
    > 11 John Champernowne ref #: AAP:226
    > +Margaret Spriggy ref #: AAP:226

    The wife of #11 John Champernowne was Margaret Hamley, whose mother m.2 Spriggy. The wife of #12 was not a Hamley. Look at the recent Bodine postings (or for that matter the material I have posted on the family since 1995).

    > 12 Richard Champernowne ref #: (AR246F-36)
    > +Mary Hamley ref #: (AR246F-36)
    > 13 Elizabeth Champernowne b: Abt. 1465 d: Bef. 1518 ref #:(AR246F-36)
    >> References:
    > AR = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
    > AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or [Pres. # : page].
Content
  • Champernowne Still!, by Todd A. Farmerie, February 18, 1999
  • Text: From: "Todd A. Farmerie" Subject: Re: Champernowne still!
    Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 11:49:44 -0500

    ... One Jordan marred Mabel/Mabira of Gloucester, daughter of Robert Fitz Robert by Hawise de Redvers. She subsequently married a Solariis, and Pole confused Mabel "de Solariis" with Emma de Soligny, in the next generation. Benson, correcting Pole, recognized Solariis was different than Soligny but not that Mabira of Gloucester and Mabel 'de Solariis' were the same, and also seeing rather long chronology, added an extra Jordan and wife Mabel de Solariis in the Umberleigh branch. It was the appropriate identification of Mabel that clarified the Solariis connection, as well as helping to resolve some of the chronlogical problems.

    Jordan m. Mabel/Mabira of Gloucester.
    They had:
    Jordan, received Umberlegh, m. Emma de Soligny
  William/Oliver m. Eva, heiress of Cardinham
    Joan m. Ralph de Wilington
Henry
  Oliver m. Wymarca
    Henry m. Dionysia English
      William m. Joan
        Henry m. Joan Bodrigan
          William m. Elizabeth Cornwall
      Richard m. Joan (of Cornwall?)
        Richard m. Elizabeth de Valletort
          Thomas m. Eleanor Rohaut
            Richard m. Alice de Astley, Katherine d'Aubigny

    I don't have a handy source which mentions the wife of Henry. I know that Benson split Henry into two people (to account for an otherwise inidentified Isabella de Champernoun, and to compensate for the extra generation in the Umberleigh line, which he also had accidentally created by splitting one person into two). I appear to have mistakenly followed Benson in naming two consecutive Henrys, but the correct identification of Mabira precludes there being an extra generation here.
Personal Names
PersonClaimDetailEvidence
Dionisia EnglishNameDionisia English [S752] [S754] [S756]
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Dionisia EnglishNameDionysia English [S754]
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Eleanor RohantNameEleanor de Rohart [S754]
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Eleanor RohantNameEleanor Rohaut [S754]
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Elizabeth ChampernounNameElizabeth Champernowne [S754]
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Elizabeth ValletortNameElizabeth de Valletort [S754]
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Emma de SolignyNameEmma de Soligny [S753] [S754] [S1659] [S2264]
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Eva de WhitchurchNameEva , Heiress of Cardinham [S754]
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Hawise de ReviersNameHawise de Redvers [S753] [S754]
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Sir Henry de ChampernounNameHenry [S754]
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Henry de ChambernonNameHenry de Chambernon [S754] [S756]
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Dame Joan de ChampernonNameJoan [S754] [S775:XIIB.642]
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Joan de OkestonNameJoan [S751] [S754]
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Joan de OkestonNameJoan of Cornwall? [S754]
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Elizabeth ValletortNameJoan de Valletort [S754]
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John ChampernounNameJohn Champernowne [S754] [S1659]
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Jordan de ChambernunNameJordan [S754]
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Jordan ChambernonNameJordan de Cambernon [S754] [S756]
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Katherine DaubeneyNameKatherine d'Aubigny [S754]
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Katherine DaubeneyNameKatherine Daubeny [S754]
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Mabel fitz RobertNameMabel de Solariis [S754]
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Mabel fitz RobertNameMabria of Gloucester [S754]
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Mabel fitz RobertNameMabria de Caen [S754]
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Margaret HamleyNameMargaret Hamley [S751] [S754] [S755]
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William de ChambernounNameOliver [S754]
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Oliver de ChambernonNameOliver de Chambernon [S754] [S756]
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Sir Ralph de WillingtonNameRalph de Wilington [S754] [S775:XIIB.642] [S1659]
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Sir Richard Champernoun of ModburyNameRichard [S754]
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Sir Richard ChampernounNameRichard [S754]
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Richard Champernoun of InworthyNameRichard Champernowne [S754]
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Sir Richard ChampernounNameRichard de Chambernon [S754]
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Robert fitz RobertNameRobert fitz Robert [S754] [S925] [S954]
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Rohese de TracyNameRohese de Tracy [S753] [S754]
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Sir Henry de ChampernounNameSir Henry de Chambernon [S754] [S756]
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Sir Richard Champernoun, Knt., of ModburyNameSir Richard Champernowne [S754]
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Sir Richard Champernoun of ModburyNameSir Richard Champernowne [S754] [S1659]
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Thomas Champernoun Esq.NameSir Thomas Champernowne [S754]
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Thomas Champernoun Esq.NameThomas [S754]
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William de ChambernounNameWilliam [S754]
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Wymarca _____NameWymarca _____ [S752] [S753] [S754] [S756]
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Relationships
PersonClaimDetailEvidence
Elizabeth ChampernounFatherRichard Champernoun of Inworthy (1435-1468) [S751] [S754] [S755] [S756] [S759]
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Elizabeth ChampernounMotherElizabeth Reynell (e1437-) [S751] [S754] [S755] [S759]
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Richard Champernoun of InworthyFatherJohn Champernoun (e1398-1449) [S751] [S754] [S755] [S759] [S1659]
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Richard Champernoun of InworthyMotherMargaret Hamley (1409-) [S751] [S754] [S755] [S759]
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John ChampernounFatherSir Richard Champernoun, Knt., of Modbury (1344-~1419) [S751] [S754] [S755] [S759] [S1659]
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John ChampernounMotherKatherine Daubeney (e1360-) [S751] [S754] [S755] [S759] [S1659]
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Sir Richard Champernoun, Knt., of ModburyFatherThomas Champernoun Esq. (~1315-) [S751] [S754] [S759] [S1659]
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Sir Richard Champernoun, Knt., of ModburyMotherEleanor Rohant (e1328-<1369) [S751] [S754] [S759]
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Thomas Champernoun Esq.FatherSir Richard Champernoun of Modbury (e1288-1338) [S751] [S754] [S759] [S1659]
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Thomas Champernoun Esq.MotherElizabeth Valletort (e1289-) [S751] [S754] [S759] [S1659]
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Sir Richard Champernoun of ModburyFatherSir Richard Champernoun (e1251-<1300) [S751] [S754] [S759] [S1659]
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Sir Richard Champernoun of ModburyMotherJoan de Okeston (e1252-<1319) [S751] [S754] [S759] [S1659]
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Sir Richard ChampernounFatherSir Henry de Champernoun (>1221-~1285) [S751] [S752] [S754] [S759] [S925] [S1659]
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Sir Richard ChampernounMotherDionisia English (e1223-) [S752] [S754] [S759]
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Sir Henry de ChampernounFatherOliver de Chambernon (e1192-<1243) [S752] [S754] [S756]
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Sir Henry de ChampernounMotherWymarca _____ (e1193-) [S752] [S754] [S756]
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Oliver de ChambernonFatherHenry de Chambernon (e1162-1212) [S753] [S754] [S756]
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Oliver de ChambernonMotherRohese de Tracy (e1165-) [S753] [S754] [S756]
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Henry de ChambernonFatherJordan Chambernon (e1115-1166) [S753] [S754]
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Henry de ChambernonMotherMabel fitz Robert (e1147-) [S753] [S754]
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Mabel fitz RobertFatherRobert fitz Robert (e1120-1170) [S753] [S754] [S954]
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Mabel fitz RobertMotherHawise de Reviers (e1121-~1215) [S753] [S754] [S954]
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Jordan de ChambernunFatherJordan Chambernon (e1115-1166) [S753] [S754]
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Jordan de ChambernunMotherMabel fitz Robert (e1147-) [S753] [S754]
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Dame Joan de ChampernonFatherWilliam de Chambernoun (~1203-<1249) [S753] [S754] [S775:XIIB.642] [S1659] [S2264]
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Dame Joan de ChampernonMotherEva de Whitchurch (e1203-) [S753] [S754] [S775:XIIB.642] [S1659]
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William de ChambernounFatherJordan de Chambernun (e1166-<1214) [S753] [S754] [S1659] [S2264]
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William de ChambernounMotherEmma de Soligny (e1174-) [S753] [S754] [S1659] [S2264]
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Events & Attributes
PersonClaimDateDetailAgeEvidence
Sir Henry de ChampernounBirthabt 1225 [S754] [S756]
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Rohese de TracyLiving1236 [S754] [S756]
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Wymarca _____Living1237 [S754] [S756]
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Sir Henry de ChampernounDeath Jul 1281 - 1285 [S752] [S754] [S756] [S759]
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