Greybeard's Ghosts

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Herbert
  • Details
  • Pedigree
Commentary
Weis assigns him as the son of Udo I, Count in the Wetterau (d. 949) (the son of Gebhard, Duke of Lotharingia (killed 910)) and a daughter of Herbert de Vermandois I, Count de Vermandois.

Concerning the siblings, Judith (b. abt 925/930), Udo (killed 982), Konrad (d. 997) and Heribert (d. 992) and their possible paternity, especially in relation to Konrad (d. 982), who was the son of Gebhard, a Count in Ufgau (d. 949) and great grandson of Udo a Count in both Niederlahngau and Lahngau, and in relation to Udo (d. 949), who was the son of Gebhard, Duke of Lotharingia (killed 910) and grandson of the same Udo a Count in both Niederlahngau and Lahngau, Charles Cawley says: "Considerable controversy surrounds the paternity of these children. Graf Konrad son of Gebhard (died 982) and Graf Udo son of Gebhard (died 949) have both been proposed as their father, Jackman being the principal proponent of the former theory while Hlavitschka has written extensively in support of the latter. It is unnecessary to repeat the detailed arguments in support of each case, as they are fully set out elsewhere, and particularly because each has appeal and neither is obviously preferable. From a purely chronological point of view, the estimated birth date range of the daughter Judith does suggest more difficulty in sustaining the argument in favour of Graf Konrad being their father. The introduction of the name Heribert into the family suggests a strong family connection between these four siblings and the Vermandois family. As shown above, it is suspected that the wives of Gebhard (died 949) and Udo son of Gebhard (also died 949) were daughters of Héribert I Comte de Vermandois. However, in neither case is it obvious that the four siblings shown below were descended from these sisters. In the case of Gebhard, it appears difficult to identify his known son Konrad with Konrad who succeeded as duke of Swabia in 983, and (as noted above) it is chronologically hard to sustain that the siblings were the children of Gebhard's known son Konrad. In the case of Udo son of Gebhard, his known son Udo was recorded as bishop of Strasbourg so could not be the same person as Udo, one of the four siblings shown below, who was killed in 982. All these reservations suggest that there may be a completely different explanation for the parentage of these four siblings from the two theories of Jackman and Hlavitschka."

Charles Cawley also states: Thietmar names "Conradus Suevorum ductor…eiusdem frater Heribertus comes" when recording their deaths. The fact that the two brothers must have also been brothers of Udo and Judith is demonstrated by Thietmar referring to "nepos meus Oddo et uxor eius Irmirgerd…" in 1018, and recording the death of "Gevehardus, Heriberti comitis filius, nepos meus" in 1016[325], both Otto and Gebhard being recorded elsewhere as the sons of Heribert.
Family
ClaimDetailEvidence
SpouseImiza (~955-) 
Child +_____ of Kinziggau (e973-) [S756] [S927]
research
Child +Gerberga von Hammerstein (~975-) [S902] [S978]
research
Attributes
ClaimDetailEvidence
GenderMale
NameHerbert I [S756]
research
NameHeribert , Graf im Kinzggau Pfalzgraf [S927]
research
NameHeribert , Pfalzgraf Graf im Kinziggau [S902]
research
NameHeribert [S978]
research
NameHerbert
no source
Possible grandfatherHerbert de Vermandois I, Count de Vermandois (~840-~907) [S756] [S978]
research
TitleCount of Gleiberg [S756]
this is speculative. Cawley indicates the Glieberg may have come form the first husband of his daughter who married Frederick I, Count of Luxembourg
research
TitlePfalzgraf Graf im Kinziggau [S902]
research
Timeline
ClaimDateDetailAgeEvidence
Birthest 952 (935-952)
 
Title959Pfalzgraf [S978]
research
Title976Count in the Kinziggau [S756] [S927] [S978]
research
Death992 [S756] [S978]
research
Sources
IndexTitle
[S756] Weis, Frederick Lewis, "Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists Who Came To New England before 1700, 7th Ed." (Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1999).
[S902] Cawley, Charles, "Foundation of Medieval Genealogy (Medieval Lands - Bavarian Nobility)" (2006-7 (v1.1 Updated 05 January 2007)) (https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BAVARIAN NOBILITY.htm).
[S927] Cawley, Charles, "Foundation of Medieval Genealogy (Medieval Lands - Luxembourg)" (2006-7 (v1.1 Updated 21 December 2006)) (https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LUXEMBOURG.htm).
[S978] Cawley, Charles, "Foundation of Medieval Genealogy (Medieval Lands - Franconia Nobility)" (2006-7 (v1.1 Updated 02 January 2007)) (https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANCONIA.htm).
Last Modified: February 3, 2025
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