Greybeard's Ghosts

  • Home
  • Blog
  • Tree
  • Sources
  • Locations
  • Photos
  • Gallery
  • DNA Ancestors
  • DNA Relatives
  • Census Tables
  • Origin Maps
  • Ancestor Maps
  • Ancestor Lists
  • Descendant Lists
  • Immigrants
  • Nobility
  • Timelines
    • 5th Century
    • 6th Century
    • 7th Century
    • 8th Century
    • 9th Century
    • 10th Century
    • 11th Century
    • 12th Century
    • 13th Century
    • 14th Century
    • 15th Century
    • 16th Century
    • 17th Century
    • 18th Century
    • 19th Century
    • 20th Century
    • 21st Century
  • Validation
  • Updates
Isabel de Mortimer
  • Details
  • Notes3
  • Kinships8
  • Pedigree
  • Fan Chart
Family
ClaimDetailEvidence
FatherRoger de Mortimer of Wigmore (~1231-1282) [S756] [S917]
research
MotherMatilda de Briouse (e1230-<1301) [S756] [S917]
research
Spouse 1stJohn FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272) 
Child +Richard fitz Alan, Earl of Arundel (1267-1302) [S756] [S925]
research
Attributes
ClaimDetailEvidence
GenderFemale
NameIsabel de Mortimer [S917] [S925] [S1011]
research
NameIsabella Mortimer [S756]
research
NameIsabel [S905]
research
FatherRoger de Mortimer of Wigmore (~1231-1282) [S756] [S917]
research
MotherMatilda de Briouse (e1230-<1301) [S756] [S917]
research
Timeline
ClaimDateDetailAgeEvidence
Birthest 1248 (1246-1248)
 
Marriage 1stbef May 14, 1260John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272) [S925]
research
Marriage 2ndbef 1273 [S905] [S925]
Ralph d'Ardene (d aft 1 Apr 1292)
research
Marriage 3rdSep 2, 1285Poling, Sussex, England [S905] [S925]
Robert de Hastang/Hastings
research
Living1300 [S917] [S925]
The Fine Rolls prove she died before 1 April 1292
negative
Sources
IndexTitle
[S756] Weis, Frederick Lewis, "Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists Who Came To New England before 1700, 7th Ed." (Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1999).
[S905] Cawley, Charles, "Foundation of Medieval Genealogy (Medieval Lands - Normandy: Alencon, Evereux, Meulan, Perche)" (2006-7 (v1.1 Updated 02 March 2007)) (https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORMANDY NOBILITY.htm).
[S917] Cawley, Charles, "Foundation of Medieval Genealogy (Medieval Lands - England Earls 1207-1297)" (2006-7 (v.1.1 Updated 26 Jun 2006 )).
[S925] Cawley, Charles, "Foundation of Medieval Genealogy (Medieval Lands - England Earls 1138-1143)" (2006-7 (v.1.1 Updated 26 Jun 2006 )).
[S1011] Cawley, Charles, "Foundation of Medieval Genealogy (Medieval Lands - Monferrato, Saluzzo, Savona)" (v1.1 Updated 06 April 2007).
Kinship Lines for Isabel de Mortimer
Spouse/PartnerDegreeRelationshipMRCA
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)125th CousinGilbert fitz Richard I, Lord of Cardigan (e1060-~1117)
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)125th CousinAdelisa de Clermont (e1061-)
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)135th Cousin 1x removedErnulf de Hesdin, Count of Perche (e1040->1091)
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)135th Cousin 1x removedEmmeline (e1041-)
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)135th Cousin 1x removedRanulph II, Viscount of Bayeux (e1045-)
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)135th Cousin 1x removedMarguerite d’Avranches (e1046-)
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)198th Cousin 1x removedRobert II, King of France (972-1031)
John FitzAlan, Lord of Clun and Oswestry (1245-1272)198th Cousin 1x removedConstance of Provence (988-1032)
Note
Douglas Richardson sent the following eamil to the GEN-MEDIEVAL mailing list on September 5, 2010 to clarify Isabel Mortimer's death date:

Complete Peerage, 1 (1910): 240 (sub Arundel) has an account of John Fitz Alan (died 1272), lord of Clun and Oswestry, which individual is ancestor of the later Earls of Arundel. Regarding his wife, Isabel de Mortimer, the following information is provided:

"He married Isabel, daughter of Roger de Mortimer, of Wigmore, by Maud, daughter and coheiress of William de Briouze, of Brecknock. He died 18 March 1271/2, and was buried in Haughmond Abbey, Salop. His widow [Isabel] married, before (1273) 1 Edw. I, Ralph d';Arderne, (living April 1283), and married, 3rdly, 2 Sept. 1285, at Poling, Sussex, (privately) Robert de Hastings, for which marriage, having omitted to obtain the Royal lic., she was fined £1,000. He was living June 1287. She was living in 1300." END OF QUOTE.

Other than the death date of John Fitz Alan, none of the above statements have any documentation provided for them. This certainly
gives the reader a moment for pause.

For starters, the statement that John Fitz Alan's widow, Isabel de Mortimer, was living in 1300, was evidently lifted from Tierney, Hist. & Antiqs. of the Castle & Town of Arundel 1 (1834): chart foll. 192, which source makes that claim.

However, the 1300 date is clearly in error as proven by a contemporary Fine Rolls record. This record indicates that the heirs and executors of Isabel, widow of John Fitz Alan, were discharged on 1 April 1292 from the payment of arrears of £115 which the said Isabel owed on the farm of West Dean and Charlton (in Singleton), Sussex. Robert de Hastang “sometime” her husband was ordered to pay £20 per year towards the arrears.

This item may be viewed at Cal. Fine Rolls, 1 (1911): 309, which is available at the following weblink:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FHMedieval&CISOPTR=35322

The only way for Isabel's heirs and executors to be discharged of a debt and Robert Hastang to "sometime" be her husband is for Isabel to have been deceased on or before 1 April 1292.

Another obvious error I note in the Complete Peerage account is the name of Isabel's 3rd husband which is there given as "Robert de
Hastings." He occurs in most records as Robert Hastang (and occasionally as Robert de Hastang). See, for example, Smith & London,
Heads of Religious Houses, England & Wales 2 (2001): 370, which shows that "Lady Isabel de Mortimer" was patron of Cold Norton Priory in 1284–5, and that "Robert Hastang" was patron of the same priory in 1288–9. This information may be viewed at the following weblink:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Tb-a-E1oCOkC&pg=PA370&dq=Lady+Isabel+Mortimer+Robert+Hastang&hl=en&ei=S1mETO67NMSclgeN2MW-Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Lady%20Isabel%20Mortimer%20Robert%20Hastang&f=false

The patronage of Cold Norton Priory was held by the Fitz Alan family. As such, I assume Isabel de Mortimer held the patronage in 1284-5 in right of her dower from her Fitz Alan marriage. Robert Hastang in turn would have been patron in 1288-9 in right of his wife, Isabel's dower.

On September 6, 2010 Terry Booth folowed up with:

To give CP partial credit, it did provide a xiv:38 correction: "for 'was living in 1300' read 'd. shortly before 1 Apr. 1292." However, it did not include a source citation, which you kindly supplied.

The quoted passage from CP i:240 (1910) below is at variance with my copy of CP i:240 (1910), which contains the following quote regarding Isabel de
Mortimer's last husband : "m., 3rdly, 2 Sep. 1285, at Poling, Sussex, (privately) Robert DE HASTANG, for which marriage, having omitted to obtain
the Royal lic., she was fined £1,000. He was living 1 Apr. 1292." CP thus did NOT here call him 'Robert de Hastings', and they also had him living
later than Jun 1287.

[tjf - apparently there are two versions of CP Vol. 1, 1910. The version reprinted in 1920 lists Isabel's third husband's name as de Hastang instead of de Hastings]
Note
John Watson sent the following eamil to the GEN-MEDIEVAL mailing list on September 6, 2010 to prove Isabel Mortimer's parentage:

These entries in the Close Rolls identify Isabel as a daughter of Roger Mortimer:

10 November 1283, To Master Henry de Bray, escheator this side Trent. Whereas in the assignment of dower made by the late king to Isabella de Mortuo Mari, late the wife of John son of Alan, tenant in chief of the said king, the dower falling to her from the towns of Obbel[eye], Pertherodry, Obendrichf, Obbaris, Larquenhop, Eyleston, and Moneton, which are under Portlok and are of the Welshery (Walescher') and members of the manor of Clone, which belonged to John, and also her dower from the waste of La Hethe, and 89 waste burgages in the borough of Clone, eight carucates of land of demesnes and assarts and of the waste lands of customary tenants pertaining to the said manor, were not assigned to her because no extent of those towns, burgages and wastes had been returned into the late king's chancery, and also her dower from the Welshery of Temcestre with the forest of Clone, which is above Portlok, was not assigned to her because Llewelyn son of Griffin, sometime prince of Wales, who occupied them during John's lifetime, held that Welshery in his hands until Roger de Mortuo Mari, lately deceased, ejected him thence by the strong hand: the king, wishing dower thereof to be assigned to Isabella, orders the escheator to make extent of the premises, and to cause dower to be assigned to her in accordance therewith. It is provided that 6l. 7s. 9¾d. yearly of land in the town of Edeneston within the manor of Screwardyn and 11l. 2s. 9d. of the issues of the mills of Oswestry (de Albo Monasterio), which the aforesaid Roger committed to Isabella to have in tenancia until dower from the aforesaid manor of Clon should be assigned to her, shall be restored to the executors of Roger's will. Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I: volume 2: 1279-1288 (1902), pp. 225-228

15 April 1284, Assignment of dower of Isabella de Mortuo Mari of the lands within the manor that belonged to John son of Alan.—Upon the king sending his writ (set out in full) to Master Henry de Bray, escheator this side Trent, dated at Hereford, 15 November, in his eleventh year, notifying him that whereas in the assignment of dower made by the late king to Isabella de Mortuo Mari, late the wife of John son of Alan, tenant in chief, the dower falling to her of the towns of Obbel[eye], Pertherodry, Obendrit, Obbarrys, Laquernhope, Eyleston, and Moneton, which are below Portlok, and which are of the Welshery (Walescheria) and members of the manor of Clone, which belonged to John, and also [her dower] of the waste of La Heth and of 80 waste burgages in the borough of Clone, and of 8 carucates of land of demesnes and assarts and of waste lands of customary tenants pertaining to the same manor was not assigned to her because no extent of those towns, burgages and wastes had been returned into the late king's chancery, and also her dower from the Welshery of Themecestre with the forest of Clone, which is above Portlok, was not assigned to her because Llewelyn son of Griffin, sometime prince of Wales, who occupied them during John's lifetime, held that Welshery in his hands until Roger de Mortuo Mari, lately deceased, ejected him thence by the strong hand; the king orders the escheator to make extent of the premises, and to cause dower to be assigned to Isabella in accordance therewith. It is provided that 6l. 7s. 9¾d. yearly of land in the town of Edenesdon, within the manor of Schrewardyn, and 11l. 2s. 9d. of the issues of the mills of Oswestry (de Albo Monasterio), which the aforesaid Roger committed to Isabella to hold in tenancia until dower from the aforesaid manor of Clon should be assigned to her, shall be restored to the executors of Roger's will. Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I: volume 2: 1279-1288 (1902), pp. 259-263

6 June 1287, To Master Henry de Bray, escheator this side Trent. Order to restore to Robert de Hasteng' and Isabella, his wife, late the wife of John son of Alan, tenant in chief of the late king, the lands, goods and chattels of Isabella, which the king ordered the escheator to take into the king's hands, believing that Isabella's marriage pertained to him, because she had married the said Robert, as the king afterwards ascertained by inspection of letters patent of the late king that the late king granted Isabella's marriage or the forfeiture pertaining to him if she married without the consent of the said king or of Roger de Mortuo Mari, her father, to the said Roger, and also by the letters of the abbot of Wyggemore and other executors of Roger's will the king learns that Robert and Isabella made fine with the executors for the marriage and forfeiture aforesaid. Witness: Edmund, earl of Cornwall. Calendar of Close Rolls, Edward I: volume 2: 1279-1288 (1902), pp. 450-453
Note
Douglas Richardson sent the following eamil to the GEN-MEDIEVAL mailing list on September 9, 2010 to clarify Isabel Mortimer's Parentage:

"378. 44 Hen. III. Westm', morrow of the Ascension [14 May, 1260]; Rog. de Mortuo Mari quer., Ioh. fil. Alani deforc.; 100 marcates of land in Norton [Chipping Norton] and Acton'; plea of covenant; Ioh. recognized that if he outlives John his son who married Isabella, the daughter of R. before he was 14 14 years old, the 100 marcates shall remain to I. for life as dos; also if John when he reaches 14 years refuses the contract of marriage, she shall have the money for life for her maintenance; in return R. granted to Isabella 40 librates of land in Andinton in Shropshire as matrimonium, to be held by John and Isabella and the issue of the marriage; if there is no issue, it shall revert aftet the death of Isabella to R. and his heirs."
(C.P. 25. 283. 15) [Reference: Rev. H. E. Salter The Feet of Fines for Oxfordshire, 1195-1291 (Oxfordshire Record Society, vol. 12)(1930), pp. 241-242].
    Last Modified: February 2, 2025
    Built with Gigatrees 5.5.0
    Built by Gigatrees 5.5.0